Athenaeus, Sophists at Dinner 13.603e: Difference between revisions

No edit summary
No edit summary
 
Line 20: Line 20:
Βορρᾶς ὡμίλησε. σὺ δ’ οὐ σοφός, ὃς τὸν Ἔρωτα,
Βορρᾶς ὡμίλησε. σὺ δ’ οὐ σοφός, ὃς τὸν Ἔρωτα,
ἀλλοτρίαν σπείρων, λωποδύτην ἀπάγεις.</poem></blockquote>
ἀλλοτρίαν σπείρων, λωποδύτην ἀπάγεις.</poem></blockquote>
</div>
<div id="translation">
Sophocles liked boys, just as Euripides liked women. At any rate, Ion the poet in his work called ''Visits'' writes the following: ‘I met Sophocles the poet on Chios, when he was sailing to Lesbos as general. He was a playful and witty man when drunk. He was being entertained by Hermesileos, a guest friend of his who was ''proxenos'' of the Athenians. Since the slave boy pouring the wine was standing by the fire <looked flushed>, Sophocles was evidently…. and said, ‘do you wish me to enjoy my drink?’ And when the boy said that he did, Sophocles said, ‘then bring and remove the cup slowly.’ At this the boy’s face became even redder and Sophocles said to the man sharing his couch: ‘how well Phrynichus was composing when he said,


<blockquote><poem>‘the light of desire gleams on purple cheeks.’’</poem></blockquote> 


</div>
To this, the Etritrean (or Erythraean), who taught reading and writing, said: ‘you are a wise poet, Sophocles. But even so, Phrynichus was not right to say that the cheeks of a beautiful boy are red. For if a painter were to smear this boy’s cheeks with red paint, he would no longer seem beautiful. And one really should not compare what is beautiful with what manifestly is not so.’
Laughing at the Eritrean, Sophocles said: ‘then, stranger, not even this verse of Simonides can please you, although the Greeks think it exceedingly well said:
 
<blockquote><poem>‘The maiden sending a voice from her red mouth.’</poem></blockquote>  
 
‘Nor’, he said, ‘the poet who speaks of ‘golden-haired Apollo.’ For if a painter had painted the hair of the god gold and not black, the painting would have been worse. And you can’t even approve of the poet who said ‘rosy-fingered’, for if someone were to dip a woman’s fingers into red dye, he would give her the hands of a red-dyer not of a beautiful woman.’
Everyone laughed; the Eritrean was downcast by the reproof and Sophocles got back to flirting with the boy. For the boy was trying to pick a bit of straw out of the cup with his little finger and Sophocles asked him whether he could see the straw. And when the boy said he could, he said, ‘then blow it, so your finger doesn’t get wet.’ But when the boy moved his face towards the cup, Sophocles moved the cup nearer his own mouth so that his head would be nearer the boy’s head. And when he was very near him, Sophocles took hold of him and kissed him. Everyone applauded, laughing and shouting that he had done a good job of seducing the boy, to which he said, ‘I’m practising generalship, gentlemen, since Pericles said that I know how to compose poetry but not how to be a general. But didn’t my little ruse turn out well?’  He said and did many similarly clever things whenever he was drunk. But in politics he was neither crafty nor active, but like one of the upper class Athenians.
Similarly, Hieronymus of Rhodes, in his ''Historical Commentaries'', says that Sophocles led a handsome boy outside the city walls to have sex with him. The boy spread his own cloak on the grass under them and they wrapped Sophocles’ cloak around themselves. After they had had sex, the boy snatched Sophocles’ cloak and went off leaving his own child’s cloak for Sophocles. When the story of what had happened got around, as was inevitable, Euripides, when he got to know about it, made a contemptuous joke about the incident, saying that he, too, had had sex with the boy but hadn’t had to pay extra, but that Sophocles had been treated disrespectfully because of his intemperance. And Sophocles, when he heard, composed the following epigram for him, making use of the story of Helios and Boreas and incorporating a riddle about Euripides’ predilection for adultery:


<div id="translation">
<blockquote>It was the Sun God, not a boy, Euripides, who warmed me up and got me naked; but when you were kissing †a courtesan†, the North Wind was your companion. You are not wise, when you arrest Love for theft, while you’re busy sowing another man’s field.</blockquote>
</div>
</div>


Line 32: Line 44:
{{CollectionsBox
{{CollectionsBox
|editor=Nicholas Freer
|editor=Nicholas Freer
|guides=[[Euripides: A Guide to Selected Sources|Euripides]]
|guides=[[Sophocles: A Guide to Selected Sources|Sophocles]]
}}
}}


{{#set:Short title=Athenaeus, ''Sophists at Dinner'' 13.81-2}}
{{#set:Short title=Athenaeus, ''Sophists at Dinner'' 13.603E}}


[[Category:Euripides Collections]]
[[Category:Sophocles Collections]]

Latest revision as of 16:09, 17 March 2015

How to quote this translation

M = reading of the whole MS tradition
m = reading of part of the MS tradition
P = reading on a papyrus
 

Φιλομεῖραξ δὲ ἦν ὁ Σοφοκλῆς, ὡς Εὐριπίδης φιλογύνης. Ἴων FGrHist 392 F 6 γοῦν ὁ ποιητὴς ἐν ταῖς ἐπιγραφομέναις Ἐπιδημίαις γράφει οὕτως· “Σοφοκλεῖ τῶι ποιητῆι ἐν Χίωι συνήντησα, ὅτε ἔπλει εἰς Λέσβον στρατηγός, ἀνδρὶ παιδιώδει παρ’ οἶνον καὶ δεξιῶι. Ἑρμησίλεω δὲ ξένου οἱ ἐόντος ἐόντος Musurus: εοντες M καὶ προξένου Ἀθηναίων ἑστιῶντος αὐτόν, ἐπεὶ παρὰ τὸ πῦρ ἑστεὼς ὁ τὸν οἶνον ἐγχέων παῖς […] lac. post παῖς Valckenaer, Schweighaeuser ἐὼν δῆλος ἦν εἶπέ τε· “βούλει με ἡδέως πίνειν;” φάντος δ’ αὐτοῦ, “βραδέως τοίνυν καὶ πρόσφερέ μοι καὶ ἀπόφερε τὴν κύλικα”. ἔτι πολὺ μᾶλλον ἐρυθριάσαντος τοῦ παιδὸς εἶπε πρὸς τὸν συγκατακείμενον· “ὡς καλῶς Φρύνιχος FGrHist 3 F 13 ἐποίησεν εἴπας·

“λάμπει δ’ ἐπὶ πορφυρέαις παρῆισι φῶς ἔρωτος.”

καὶ πρὸς τόδε ἠμείφθη ὁ Ἐρετριεὺς ἢ Ἐρυθραῖος ἢ Ἐρυθραῖος del. edd. γραμμάτων ἐὼν διδάσκαλος· “σοφὸς μὲν δὴ σύ γε εἶ, ὦ Σοφόκλεις, ἐν ποιήσει· ὅμως μέντοι γε οὐκ εὖ εἴρηκε Φρύνικος πορφυρέας εἰπὼν τὰς γνάθους τοῦ καλοῦ. εἰ γὰρ ὁ ζωγράφος χρώματι πορφυρέωι ἐναλείψειε τουδὶ τοῦ παιδὸς τὰς γνάθους, οὐκ ἂν ἔτι καλὸς φαίνοιτο. οὐ κάρτα δεῖ οὐ κάρτα δὴ m: οὐ γὰρ δεῖ m τὸ καλὸν τῶι μὴ καλῶι φαινομένωι εἰκάζειν.” ἀνγελάσας δ’ ἀνγελάσας δ’ Wilamowitz: ἂν γελάσας M: ἀναγελάσας Korais: γελάσας δὲ Porson: γελάσας δ’ Kaibel: καὶ γελάσας Meineke ἐπὶ τῶι Ἐρετριεῖ Σοφοκλῆς· “οὐδὲ τόδε σοι ἀρέσκει ἄρα, ὦ ξένε, τὸ Σιμωνίδειον PMG 585, κάρτα δοκέον τοῖς Ἕλλησιν εὖ εἰρῆσθαι·

“πορφυρέου ἀπὸ στόματος ἱεῖσα φωνὰν παρθένος”,

οὐδ’ ὁ ποιητής Pind. Ol. 6.41, 7.32; Pae. 5.41,” ἔφη “<ὁ> <ὁ> Kaibel λέγων “χρυσοκόμαν Ἀπόλλωνα”· χρυσέας γὰρ εἰ ἐποίησεν ὁ ζωγράφος τὰς τοῦ θεοῦ κόμας καὶ μὴ μελαίνας, χεῖρον ἂν ἦν τὸ ζωγράφημα. oὐδὲ ὁ φὰς “ῥοδοδάκτυλον”· εἰ γάρ τις εἰς ῥόδεον χρῶμα βάψειε τοὺς δακτύλους, πορφυροβάφου χεῖρας καὶ οὐ γυναικὸς καλῆς ποιήσειεν {{#lemma: <ἄν> | <ἄν> Jacobs”. γελασάντων δέ, ὁ μὲν Ἐρετριεὺς ἐνωπήθη τῆι ἐπιραπίξει, ὁ δὲ πάλιν τοῦ παιδὸς τῶι λόγωι εἴχετο. εἴρετο γάρ μιν ἀπὸ τῆς κύλικος κάρφος τῶι μικρῶι δακτύλωι ἀφαιρετέοντα, εἰ καθορᾶι τὸ κάρφος. φάντος δὲ καθορᾶν, “ἀπὸ τοίνυν φύσησον αὐτό, ἵνα μὴ πλύνοιτο ὁ δάκτυλός σευ σευ Dindorf: εὗ M.” προσαγαγόντος δ’ αὐτοῦ τὸ πρόσωπον πρὸς τὴν κύλικα ἐγγυτέρω τὴν κύλικα τοῦ ἑαυτοῦ στόματος ἦγεν, ἵνα δὴ ἡ κεφαλὴ τῆι κεφαλῆι ἀσσοτέρα γένηται. ὡς δὲ ἦν οἱ οἱ Musurus: ἡ M: ἥδε Blumenthal κάρτα πλησίον, περιλαβὼν περιλαβὼν Kaibel: προσλαβὼν M τῆι χειρὶ ἐφίλησεν. ἐπικροτησάντων δὲ πάντων σὺν γέλωτι καὶ βοῆι ὡς εὖ ὑπηγάγετο τὸν παῖδα, “μελετῶ μελετῶ Musurus: μελέτω M: μελετέω Meineke,” εἶπεν, “στρατηγεῖν, ὦ ἄνδρες, ἐπειδήπερ Περικλῆς ποιεῖν μέν <με> ἔφη <με> ἔφη Kaibel: ἔφη <με> Musurus, στρατηγεῖν δ’ οὐκ ἐπίστασθαι. ἆρ’ οὖν οὐ κατ’ ὀρθόν μοι πέπτωκεν τὸ στρατήγημα;” τοιαῦτα πολλὰ δεξιῶς ἔλεγέν τε καὶ ἔπρησσεν ὅτε πίνοι [ἢ πράσσοι] [ἢ πράσσοι] Kaibel: ἢ πράσσοι M. τὰ μέντοι πολιτικὰ οὔτε σοφὸς οὔτε ῥεκτήριος ἦν, ἀλλ’ ὡς ἄν τις εἷς τῶν χρηστῶν Ἀθηναίων”. Καὶ Ἱερώνυμος δ’ ὁ Ῥόδιος ἐν τοῖς Ἱστρορικοῖς Ὑπομνήμασίν Fr. 35 Wehrli φησιν ὅτι Σοφοκλῆς εὐπρεπῆ παῖδα ἔξω τείχους ἀπήγαγε χρησόμενος αὐτῶι. ὁ μὲν οὖν παῖς τὸ ἴδιον ἱμάτιον ἐπὶ τῆι πόαι ὑπέστρωσεν, τὴν δὲ τοῦ Σοφοκλέους χλάνιδα περιεβάλοντο. μετ’ οὖν τὴν ὁμιλίαν ὁ παῖς ἀρπάσας τὸ τοῦ Σοφοκλέους χλανίδιον ὤιχετο, καταλιπὼν τῶι Σοφοκλεῖ τὸ παιδικὸν ἱμάτιον. οἷα δὲ εἰκὸς διαλαληθέντος τοῦ συμβεβηκότος Εὐριπίδης πυθόμενος καὶ ἐπιτωθάζων τὸ γεγονὸς καὶ αὐτός ποτε ἔφη τούτωι κεχρῆσθαι τῶι παιδί, ἀλλὰ μηδὲν προσθεῖναι, τὸν δὲ Σοφοκλέα διὰ τὴν ἀκολασίαν καταφρονηθῆναι. καὶ ὁ Σοφοκλῆς ἀκούσας ἐποίησεν εἰς αὐτὸν τὸ τοιοῦτον ἐπίγραμμα, χρησάμενος τῶι περὶ τοῦ Ἡλίου καὶ Βορέου λόγωι, καί τι πρὸς μοιχείαν αὐτοῦ παραινιττόμενος · fr. eleg. 4 West = 3 Diehl

Ἥλιος ἦν, οὐ παῖς, Εὐριπίδη, ὅς με χλιαίνων
γυμνὸν ἐποίησεν· σοὶ δὲ φιλοῦντι †ἑταίραν† †ἑταίραν† Radt: φιλοῦνθ’ ἑτέραν Musurus: φιλοῦντι κόρην Herwerden, Headlam: φιλοῦντι τάλαν West
Βορρᾶς ὡμίλησε. σὺ δ’ οὐ σοφός, ὃς τὸν Ἔρωτα,
ἀλλοτρίαν σπείρων, λωποδύτην ἀπάγεις.

Sophocles liked boys, just as Euripides liked women. At any rate, Ion the poet in his work called Visits writes the following: ‘I met Sophocles the poet on Chios, when he was sailing to Lesbos as general. He was a playful and witty man when drunk. He was being entertained by Hermesileos, a guest friend of his who was proxenos of the Athenians. Since the slave boy pouring the wine was standing by the fire <looked flushed>, Sophocles was evidently…. and said, ‘do you wish me to enjoy my drink?’ And when the boy said that he did, Sophocles said, ‘then bring and remove the cup slowly.’ At this the boy’s face became even redder and Sophocles said to the man sharing his couch: ‘how well Phrynichus was composing when he said,

‘the light of desire gleams on purple cheeks.’’

To this, the Etritrean (or Erythraean), who taught reading and writing, said: ‘you are a wise poet, Sophocles. But even so, Phrynichus was not right to say that the cheeks of a beautiful boy are red. For if a painter were to smear this boy’s cheeks with red paint, he would no longer seem beautiful. And one really should not compare what is beautiful with what manifestly is not so.’ Laughing at the Eritrean, Sophocles said: ‘then, stranger, not even this verse of Simonides can please you, although the Greeks think it exceedingly well said:

‘The maiden sending a voice from her red mouth.’

‘Nor’, he said, ‘the poet who speaks of ‘golden-haired Apollo.’ For if a painter had painted the hair of the god gold and not black, the painting would have been worse. And you can’t even approve of the poet who said ‘rosy-fingered’, for if someone were to dip a woman’s fingers into red dye, he would give her the hands of a red-dyer not of a beautiful woman.’ Everyone laughed; the Eritrean was downcast by the reproof and Sophocles got back to flirting with the boy. For the boy was trying to pick a bit of straw out of the cup with his little finger and Sophocles asked him whether he could see the straw. And when the boy said he could, he said, ‘then blow it, so your finger doesn’t get wet.’ But when the boy moved his face towards the cup, Sophocles moved the cup nearer his own mouth so that his head would be nearer the boy’s head. And when he was very near him, Sophocles took hold of him and kissed him. Everyone applauded, laughing and shouting that he had done a good job of seducing the boy, to which he said, ‘I’m practising generalship, gentlemen, since Pericles said that I know how to compose poetry but not how to be a general. But didn’t my little ruse turn out well?’ He said and did many similarly clever things whenever he was drunk. But in politics he was neither crafty nor active, but like one of the upper class Athenians. Similarly, Hieronymus of Rhodes, in his Historical Commentaries, says that Sophocles led a handsome boy outside the city walls to have sex with him. The boy spread his own cloak on the grass under them and they wrapped Sophocles’ cloak around themselves. After they had had sex, the boy snatched Sophocles’ cloak and went off leaving his own child’s cloak for Sophocles. When the story of what had happened got around, as was inevitable, Euripides, when he got to know about it, made a contemptuous joke about the incident, saying that he, too, had had sex with the boy but hadn’t had to pay extra, but that Sophocles had been treated disrespectfully because of his intemperance. And Sophocles, when he heard, composed the following epigram for him, making use of the story of Helios and Boreas and incorporating a riddle about Euripides’ predilection for adultery:

It was the Sun God, not a boy, Euripides, who warmed me up and got me naked; but when you were kissing †a courtesan†, the North Wind was your companion. You are not wise, when you arrest Love for theft, while you’re busy sowing another man’s field.


Relevant guides Sophocles